It's easy to feel doomed when it comes to climate change. In her latest book, the Italian political scientist Nathalie Tocci makes the case for cautious optimism about Europe's climate and energy policies. We chat to her this week about the opportunities and challenges of the European Green Deal, as well as how to interpret the death last week of Silvio Berlusconi. We're also talking about a push to ban unpaid internships across the EU, and whether or not we should be blaming Beyoncé for stubbornly high inflation in Sweden.