Train bistros and an oily climate commissioner
This week, we hear about the controversies surrounding the selection of the EU's climate commissioners, we look into the past, present, and future of the Nagorno Karabakh situation, and enjoy a delightful interview with David Ecker, the person behind the @_DiningCar Twitter/X account, dedicated entirely to the experience of dining while traveling on trains.
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Producers: Katy Lee and Wojciech Oleksiak
Mixing and mastering: Wojciech Oleksiak
Music: Jim Barne and Mariska Martina
Twitter | Instagram | hello@europeanspodcast.com
00:22 A Little Polish Election Update
06:39 Bad Week: Azerbaijan Ducks Peace Talks with Armenia
15:14 Good Week: Hoekstra, the Unexpected New EU Climate Chief
29:16 Interview: David Ecker - Dining on Rail Cars
40:10 Inspiration Station: Mae Martin’s stand-up - ‘SAP’ - on Netflix, Laura Mvula’s song ‘Pink Noise’ (but anything from Laura Mvula really)
42:04 Happy Ending: Barcelona’s BiciBús!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Introduction - 0’22’’
Dominic
Hello and welcome to the Europeans podcast where you have 50% More presenters today. There are three of us. Yay. Hi, Wojciech.
Wojciech
Hello.
Dominic
Hi, Katz.
Katz
Hi.
Dominic
So nice, you've all joined us.
Wojciech
It's a bonus episode!
Dominic
It's kind of a bonus episode. Yeah, I mean, it's actually a normal episode, but let's call it a bonus episode because everyone deserves a bonus episode this week. Am I right?
Wojciech
Yeah!
Dominic
How is it over there in Amsterdam, North, Katz, the other side of that big body of water between us?
Katz
Oh, so far away. I never see since you moved to the deep West. It's nice. There are lots of conckers falling outside my window.
Dominic
Lovely. And in Warsaw?
Wojciech
It's really cold. It's like three to five degrees Celsius in the morning. It's not getting much better during the day. But yeah, we're surviving we’re you know, buying winter jackets, and those kind of things.
Dominic
I'm still holding on pretending it's summer over here in Amsterdam, my spring flowering bulbs starting to sprout in my garden. So it's very confusing over here in Amsterdam. And Wojciech, since we've got you here, you promised to give us some updates on the Polish election regularly. So has anything changed since you spoke to us last week?
Katz
Yeah, I'm hearing my Polish neighbor shout about it a lot. Actually, can you tell us what's happening?
Wojciech
Well, it's getting more and more interesting every day, it seems like the ruling party and the far right party are not doing that well in the polls any longer. So it's a real nail-biter, and everybody is glued to their television to their websites with polls, and we're discussing it every day. So really interesting times. And I think a really, really pivotal election is coming up.
Dominic
Whoo, nice to hear a bit more optimism in your voice. But, I also hear you bracing yourself with expectation management.
Wojciech
Yeah, I'm trying not to be overly excited, because obviously, you know, we would like to see some change. This government's been in power for eight years. It's been very controversial. And yeah, I mean, any kind of new fresh air would be very much welcome.
Katz
Looking forward to hearing more. Yeah,
Dominic
but this week, we are talking about something completely different, right? What are we talking about on the show this week?
Wojciech
So today, we're talking about trains, but don't about traveling on trains, but we're talking about traveling and eating, dining on trains. We're going to talk to David Ecker, who is a real enthusiast of dining on railway cars
Katz
Love a train Bistro!
Wojciech
It's one of the interviews Katy prepared for us during the summer. And again, it's as interesting and as surprising as the one about eating jellyfish.
Dominic
It sounds great! My husband had another epic journey this week, coming back from Budapest to Amsterdam overnight, that took about like eight hours longer than it was meant to. So I'm looking forward to hearing about some of the lovely side of train travel.
Katz
I once ate a saffron risotto on that trade that your husband just took, which was pretty shocking.
Wojciech
Saffron risotto?!
Katz
I don't believe it was real. It was pretty amazing.
Wojciech
I think you should report that to every guest.
Katz
I would gladly.
Dominic
But first, it's time for good week, bad week.
Dominic
Now, obviously, we are all thinking and reading a lot about Israel and Palestine this week. It's been absolutely horrifying seeing the news reports this week. And our thoughts are with all the victims and their families. But we are going to be sticking with our general rule that what we do best here at the Europeans isn't responding to the biggest fast changing news stories of the day, but highlighting some other stories that you might have missed. And that doesn't mean that we don't think this main news story is important to follow. We just think that following the reporters who are there on the ground is probably more important at this stage than listening to what we have to say about it from our bedrooms in Amsterdam and Warsaw. So we're gonna stick to that principle this week, even if it feels a bit strange. But before we move on, does anyone have anything else they want to say?
Katz
Yeah, actually, I wanted to share a pretty powerful moment I experienced. I've been going to this yoga class in my neighborhood on Sunday mornings for quite a while now. And the teacher is always like this force to be reckoned with like she's really warm and she says profound things which is always really funny. She says things like you know, it's good if you do this pose well, but you know, you're not going to change your life. If you do it if you do it perfectly. So don’t take yourself too seriously. Or she will let you take a few more breaths and be like, you're not going to change the world. It’s just really, yeah, that's her vibe. And then this week, she looked completely different. It was really clear that she was almost in tears at the start of the lesson. She's from Israel and Palestine. And she said, guys, I've been having a dilemma tonight, and this morning, I don't really know how to talk about where I'm from. And she said, this week's news is really intense. And I can't just sit here and sing the mantras and breathe. And yoga is also about being connected with what's going on in the world and the humanity of the people around you. So instead, she started the class by reading this Martin Luther King text, and half in tears, she read about dreaming of a world where there is no more war and people just don't kill each other anymore. And it really, really hit. I really don't think a single person in that room didn't cry. And I thought it was just a really beautiful and powerful thing in such a moment of violence to sit with that humanity.
<musical sting.
Bad Week - 06’39’’
Dominic
So time for good week, bad week. Who has had a bad week, Wojciech?
Wojciech
So with a focus now squarely on the conflict in Israel, I'd like to take a moment and go back to the situation in Nagorno Karabakh. So I think it was a bad week for both Armenia and Azerbaijan, because the anticipated meeting between the leaders in Grenada was unfortunately canceled at the last minute by the Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev.
Dominic
Could you give us a quick recap of where this conflict is right now?
Wojciech
Yeah, I was just about to mention that this is one of the conflicts that have been going forward seems like forever, and it's very possible that people might have lost track of it along the way. So here's a very brief recap. So the Nagorno Karabakh conflict has deep historical roots, and in the modern era, it goes back to when Karabakh was an autonomous Armenian region within Azerbaijan. And after the collapse of the USSR, the first Nagorno Karabakh war occurred in 1992, leading to the region breaking away from Azerbaijan and declaring itself an independent state. Interestingly, no one, not even Armenia officially recognized the state. However, for the next 30 years, the situation was such that you had this quasi state entity within Azerbaijan, predominantly inhabited by Armenians. But in reality, it was super closely tied to Armenia and connected through the well known Lachin corridor and extra territorial road.
Katz
And then there was this war in 2020, right?
Wojciech
Yeah, that's right. That's the second Nagorno Karabakh War. In the fall of that year, Armenia and Azerbaijan found themselves in a brutal conflict, which ultimately resulted in the victory of Azerbaijani forces, and they regaining control over parts of Nagorno Karabakh, and the fighting finally came to a halt with a ceasefire brokered through Russia's involvement. And Russia deployed a contingent of peacekeeping forces with a mission of keeping the latrine corridor open, and safeguarding Armenians from potential aggression by Azerbaijani forces. So last year, tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan flared up again, when Azerbaijani forces blocked the Lachine corridor, causing severe shortages of food, fuel gas, and medical supplies. And now we know that this was a precursor to another military conflict that kicked off on September 19 2023. And this time the Nagorno Karbakh surrendered after only two days, and the quasi state as we knew it will officially cease to exist on January 1, 2024. But in reality, it's already practically non existent with almost 100% of the Armenian population gone. Its leaders captured and the authorities in Yerevan not appearing eager to fight for it any longer.
Dominic
Do you really mean every Armenian left? How did that happen?
Wojciech
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. The reports suggest that 100,500 people have left and considering the Armenian government claimed that 120,000 Armenians lived in the region before the crisis. That's already like 85% of the population. But you know, people on the ground are saying that entire cities and villages are completely empty. And they think those initial 120,000 estimates might have been clearly overstated. It seems like anyone who could get out, did. And they left so abruptly because they were scared. The Azerbaijani authorities gave them these really murky conditional safety guarantees. And even those didn't inspire much trust among the Armenian people. You have to remember, it's one of those conflicts where to put it mildly. Both sides have done some terrible things. And there's next to no mutual trust. They've grown up with this deep seated animosity, and the subsequent wars and forced displacements of people have only made it worse.
Katz
And why didn't the Armenian authorities fight back this time?
Wojciech
Well, so this is where we get into the heart of things. So basically, Nicole Pashinyan, the current Armenian Prime Minister, he's in power since 2018. He's basically questioning the idea that Armenia has to rely solely on its decades long alliances with Russia. Now, keep in mind that Armenia is a small country sandwiched between two much larger and powerful allies, Turkey and Azerbaijan, who both are openly hostile to Armenia, but very close to each other. So historically, Armenia has needed a sort of big brother to watch its back. But, you know, times are changing. Pashinyan recently pointed out that Armenia has been almost entirely dependent on Russia for its weapons and ammunition. And now with the ongoing war in Ukraine, those supply lines have been disrupted. He boldly stated that ’This example shows that depending on just one partner for security matters, is a strategic blunder’. And Pashinyan has always been keen on bringing Armenia closer to the Western world, the EU and forging a stronger alliance with the US. He realized that they couldn't take on Azerbaijani aggression militarily this time, and also couldn't rely on Russia anymore. So he's working on de-escalating things with his neighbors, while reshaping Arminia’s international policies.
Dominic
But there have been massive protests right? Against this decision…
Wojciech
Yeah, a big chunk of Armenian society had this deep attachment to the independence of Nagorno Karabakh. It was like the symbol of their cultural and national identity. So now they've labeled Pashinyan as a traitor, and are demanding that he steps down, they hold him responsible for the loss in the second Nagorno Karabakh war in 2020 as well. Whether he stays in power or not, is I think a make or break moment for the entire region. Because if he were to be replaced, his successor would likely be chosen by the more nationalist, pro Russia part of the population. And that could mean Armenia going back to being heavily reliant on Russia. What this could mean for them in the long run is kind of up in the air, especially with Russia having its own share of problems and not providing as much support this time around.
Katz
Wojciech, you gave this bad week because of this meeting that didn't happen. So why didn't it happen?
Wojciech
You see, Pashinyan appears to have come to terms with the fact that Nagorno Karbakh is now under Azerbaijani control. He was actually very eager to meet with Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev hoping for what he called ‘a turning point document’ to be signed. But unfortunately, Aliyev decided to decline the summit, citing an anti-Azerbaijani atmosphere. What he meant by that was probably the involvement of France as one of the mediators which he believed quite rightfully, I would say, had not been neutral during the conflict. This is because during a recent visit to Armenia, French Foreign Minister Cathirne Colonna made a somewhat vague offer of military support to Armenia, and this didn't sit well with Azerbaijani officials. Also, it's no secret that France has a very strained relationship with Turkey. And Turkey was not invited to be part of the mediation process. So in the end, the summit took place without Azerbaijani officials. The silver lining I can offer you is that also from the lion has pledged to make every possible effort to arrange a meeting between the EU Armenia and Azerbaijan before the end of October, under conditions that are acceptable to all parties involved. So the hopes now are that this trilateral meeting in Brussels would make for a better negotiating space than this maybe slightly overcrowded summit in Granada.
Dominic
Trilateral! Look at you with your Euro speak, Wojciech.
Wojciech
Yeah, I'm making progress. It's one of my favorite EU words.
Dominic
Thank you for explaining this to us. I actually have to admit that I'm going very Brussels nerdy with my good week this week. So I shouldn't be teasing you about using words like trilateral.
Wojciech
Interesting. So who has had a good week, Dominic?
Dominic
Well, as I said, this good week is pretty nerdy. So be warned. Because for the first time in my life this week, I found myself watching a live stream of a confirmation hearing at the European Parliament whilst cooking myself dinner.
Wojciech
What?!
Katz
Congratulations on your maiden voyage.
Dominic
Thank you. Honestly, I don't know how I became that person. And I think maybe it's finally happening. And I'm as interested in European politics as I used to be in American politics. This podcast is doing something to me! I did honestly feel a bit like I was crossing the Rubicon into ultimate Brussels nerdery by watching this live stream. So I will try my best to explain why I was watching this hearing and why I'm giving good week to Europe's newest Commissioner Wopke Hoekstra without alienating anyone who isn't as much of an EU nerd as I now apparently am. So please stop me Katz and Wojciech, if I get too stuck in the weeds.
Katz
I will. I am also sad that Hoekstra is getting a good week mention.
Dominic
As you know, Katz good week is not a quality judgment. It's just who we think has had a good week, right?
Katz
It's true. Just too soon.
Dominic
So it’s been a good week for Wopke Hoekstra and also for Slovakian Commissioner Maroš Šefčovič, after they were both approved by the European Parliament and Its Environment Committee to lead the European Commission's climate efforts together.
Wojciech
One thing I don't understand is why they were chosen now. Shouldn't they be chosen like after the election?
Dominic
Yes. Which is happening next year! You're absolutely right. Wojciech, you're also an EU nerd. The 27 EU commissioners, one for each country, are usually chosen after the European Parliamentary elections. And the reason why the commissioners were being approved now is because the Dutch commissioner who was spearheading the US massive climate legislation, the European Green Deal, a guy called Frans Timmermans, he decided to step down from his EU role so that he could head back to the Netherlands and lead the newly emerged Labor and Green Party in the run up to the Dutch general election, which is in November. Are you still with me?
Wojciech
Yeah. But I want to say he was a bit of your like, you Brussels bubble sweetheart, right?
Katz
I don't know if sweetheart is too big of a word, but he does feel more famous than most commissioners.
Dominic
That's true. But whilst we're here sitting talking about commissioners, I feel like I should probably very briefly recap what the Commission is, in case you haven't listened to our explainer episode about what the commission is titled, ‘President of the European What Now?’, the commission is basically a key part of the EU's executive branch. It kind of functions a bit like the government of the EU, and they have a president called Ursula von der Leyen plus eight vice presidents and the commissioners are some of the most powerful people in the EU, but they are not elected directly. They are nominated by national governments and then must be approved by the elected parliament. It's a system which is sometimes criticized for being rather opaque and involving lots of negotiation behind the scenes that citizens don't have a direct say on or even don't get to hear what those negotiations are sometimes. So Frans Timmermans, the Dutch Commissioner, he stepped down and he needs replacing and it's up to the Dutch government to put forward a replacement Commissioner for the Netherlands. And in an immediately controversial move, they decided to put forward a Dutch politician from a very different political background to Timmermans. They put forward a Christian Democrat who had led the finance ministry and was up until recently Minister for Foreign Affairs. In the Netherlands, a man called of Wopke Hoekstra!
Katz
I have also been following this very closely. And if I understand correctly, he's not directly replacing Frans Timmermans, right?
Dominic
No, indeed. So Timmermans was one of these vice presidents of the EU Commission and Wopke is not going to be taking that role, nor is he leading the Green Deal that's going to the Slovakian commissioner who will come to in a minute, but Hoekstra is being given the brief of Commissioner for climate action, and one of the reasons why this confirmation hearing has become a big one. It has become a bigger news story than most confirmation hearings and why I was watching is because Hoekstra is that up until now doesn't exactly paint him as a politician who is particularly concerned or interested in climate change. This becomes very clear when you look at his CV hook strap previously worked for Shell,
Katz
It does feel like an incredible choice in 2023 to have an ex-Shell employee!
Dominic
Right? He then worked for McKinsey for a decade and later went into politics where he as Minister of Finance arranged the huge multi billion euro bailout of the Dutch French airline Air France KLM. The Dutch political comedian Arjan Lubach joked that you can actually smell the petrol coming out of Hoekstra’s CV. But perhaps the most alarming thing for green minded people with this appointment was the fact that his party, the Christian Democrats, is affiliated with the European People's Party group in Europe, and this is this hugely powerful political grouping, who have recently been trying to block certain aspects of the landmark European climate legislation and have been successful in some cases, for example, in their watering down of the huge biodiversity bill only a few months ago. So his nomination when it was announced some months ago raised more than a few eyebrows.
Katz
I do not have a very moving face, but my eyebrows have been permanently raised!
Dominic
Yes, mine have been pretty raised too, to be honest. But as I said earlier, he was not put forward as the Commissioner in charge of the Green Deal. That portfolio was given to Maros Šefčovič, who is from the same European Social Democratic Party grouping as France Timmermans. So that maybe makes a bit more sense. Šefčovič was also having to prove himself in front of the European Parliament's Environment Committee this week, but I will come to him in a bit.
Wojciech
Well, so how did this ex-Shell employee do in front of this committee?
Dominic
Well, he got a pretty bumpy ride. He got some quite critical questions from politicians on the green and the left side of things. But honestly, it was kind of weird because Hoekstra seemed to have a complete political personality transplant and presented himself as a total champion of green issues. It was almost like he joined the extinction rebellion. He talks about wanting to introduce an international kerosene tax and maritime Levy, a fossil fuels tax, he talked of the need for Europeans to change their diets for the climate. And I don't know about you Katz, but I cannot imagine a world in which he would have put his political weight behind these issues whilst working in Dutch national politics. It's so far out of his wheelhouse.
Katz
It is such a transformation like that's the thing that surprised me is not you know, that he was like that he once worked in Shell, but like they didn't seem to be any run up. It was just like two months ago, he was not interested in the climate. And now all of a sudden, he was, right?
Dominic
Yeah. And he got, he did get some accusations of opportunism, just like playing to the people that he knew he needed to get the votes. But he did make some significant announcements. He, for example, said he wanted the EU to commit to emissions cuts of 90% by 2040, which, up until now has not been something that the EU has been explicitly aiming for. But it's something that has been really pushed for by climate scientists and green politicians. So that announcement was seen as a big win for the green left.
Wojciech
Whoa. So he's like, really green now, which is kind of surprising. So did the MEPs buy it?
Dominic
I don't know if everyone bought it. I mean, as I said, there were people who commented on the fact that he'd had this radical switch of opinions, but he did eventually get the crucial votes from the environment committee. Although they did make him sweat for it. The committee postponed their final decision by a day and even made him answer some extra questions.
Wojciech
So if people were entirely convinced, why did they vote him through?
Dominic
Well, it's that typical thing with the EU where everything ends up being a compromise, and because his appointment was kind of unofficially coupled with giving the Slovakian Commissioner Šefčovič the Green Deal brief, their confirmations ended up being a bit of a package deal together. If the left had voted down Hoekstra, the right probably would have voted down chef ceviche. And then we would have been back at square one. Also, many on the green left, were actually genuinely pleased that someone running for this position was making these commitments to strengthen the EU’s green policies, even if it was coming from someone very unexpected, and was mainly in an attempt to woo the greens for the votes or maybe he's had a genuine change of opinion. Maybe since he's been offered this brief. He looked into the science and was like, oh, maybe we do actually need to do something about this.
Katz
I do genuinely wonder if like more will be accomplished if you have a climate ally in the European People's Party who feels pressure to take the climate more seriously, than if you just only have these opinions coming from, you know, the green left.
Dominic
Yeah, well, exactly. We need saving the climate not to be a party political thing that divides the left and the right. Otherwise, nothing's ever going to happen. Right?
Katz
We shall see.
Dominic
And of course, there's a big question of whether Hoekstra and Šefčovič will be able to come through on any of these policy ideas that they talked about in their committee hearings. But the public pronouncements themselves of these greater climate ambitions already shifts the argument a bit in the European sphere.
Katz
How did his own party respond? Weren't they a bit shocked?
Dominic
Well, that's a really good question. The Christian Democrats have his own political party, were really not happy one spoke to the Dutch broadcaster NOS, anonymously, saying he came there with many more green commitments than expected. ‘We were trapped. We couldn't vote against our own candidate. The social democrats and the Greens played the game well, better than us. Spicy’. So I think your eyebrows can like actually slowly go down.
Katz
Like I said, my face isn't moving.
Dominic
I promised I would also tell you a bit about the Slovakian Commissioner Šefčovič, who is already a vice president at the commission, so it would have been a bit strange if he was rejected in his new position. He also said he wanted to set the goal of a 90% reduction in emissions by 2040. So he and Hoekstra are on the same page, and on most issues they discussed in the hearings. But there were reports that some MEPs were not so impressed with his hearing, and there was quite some concern from some MEPs about his connection to Robert Fico - the populist Slovakian politician who just won the Slovakian elections, Fico is seen as an ally of Oban. He's friendly with Russia, and he actually promised not to send any more military aid to Ukraine during his election. But Šefčovič pushed back against these concerns and said that, of course, he supports military aid to Ukraine. So they both got voted through. And I guess that's all I really have to say about these hearings for now. Now, we can just sit back and see how these two men do. Now they've been given two of the most important jobs in Europe it will be it only temporarily until the next European Parliamentary elections. The first challenge for Hoekstra will be preparing for the yearly UN climate conference COP 28, which is coming up in Dubai at the end of November. We'll be watching closely!
Wojciech
What a place to hold COP!
Dominic
Right?
***
Patreon! It’s that time of the week where we thank the wonderful people who are keeping this podcast going. We have two new supporters on Patreon this week Filippo and Catherine. Thank you both so much. You can head to patreon.com\Europeans podcast. If you've got a little bit of spare cash that you could throw our way each month it can be as little as two euros, it makes a big difference. The more people that do it, the more likely we are to survive.
Wojciech
Our guest today has ventured into a unique territory that most of us wouldn't even think of. Back in 2018, he kicked off a Twitter account dedicated to sharing pictures and stories from railway dining cars. Surprisingly, it turned out that he wasn't the only European with a taste for tracks and snacks. And his niche account has since grown to more than 10,000 followers. In just a moment you'll hear Katy Lee dive into a conversation with David about which rail companies offered the best menus and what the future holds for dining experiences on train journeys. We gave David Ecker a call in Vienna…
<Skype calling sound>
Katy Lee
restaurant cars on trains, if you don't mind me saying so. It does seem like quite a niche interest. How did you get so fascinated by them in the first place?
David Ecker
It was in May 2018. When I was traveling to Strasbourg, I was working at the Council of Europe there and this tiny car by Deutsche Bahn attract me really a lat it was an refurbished dining car from the early 1990s, with this pink interior design, golden railing, and I have thought, Okay, I'm sure people know this, but I think more people have to know about this. And so I started this Twitter account. And I found out that there is kind of a community, a growing community. It was a bit earlier than 18. Back was there, but it was already in the spirit. And people were more and more traveling by train and, and I like traveling by train, of course, this is also a reason and I like sitting in the dining car and watching the scenery outside the landscape and having a meal or it has something attractive in terms of slow traveling, maybe also time traveling. I don't know.
Katy Lee
And how many different restaurant carriages have you eaten in? Do you think? I mean, do you know?
David Ecker
I don't know. 100? Something like that? Bad? Yeah, that there is a huge variety of dining cars out there in Europe.
Katy Lee
Well, let's talk about them. I mean, I live in France. And I don't think I've ever written anything more ambitious, in a French train restaurant carriage that like a sad sandwich with a can of Orangina. And then I look at all of these pictures on your Flickr account and your Twitter page from sort of Austria eastwards. And there's all of these pictures of these like beautiful hot, three course meals with schnitzel and pasta and these like ambitious desserts. I mean, does Europe get better at train eating? The further east you go?
David Ecker
You can say so but this is a of course is related to how work is paid. I would say there is a cook in the dining car and two waiters. If you go to France, there is one person in the bar carriage preparing hot meal if there is one in the microwave, and that's it. But I think the meals in France on train are not that bad. They are just a bit awful looking. I would say not very much emphasis is put on presentation.
Katy Lee
But like, that's weird. No, I mean, France has a world class culinary reputation, and it has good trains like why is my country so crap, in terms of food on trains.
David Ecker
Yeah, but in my opinion, it fits really well to this high speed train image. Everything has to be fast. Not only the train journey is on 320 kilometers per hour, but also the meal is fast, more and more people have to fit in in one train set. So there is not much room for dishes or seating areas, etc. Everything is optimized to a certain lifestyle emphasis high speed and France.
Katy Lee
But in great contrast to this pitiful French offering, some European rail services are really taking train dining to the next level, right? Like they're starting to offer seasonal menus and like craft brew beer designed specifically for that journey. Which routes do you think deserve a particular shout out for how great the food is?
David Ecker
I think if you want to experience great styling on rails, you have to go to the Czech Republic with JD railways, they are doing an amazing job. As you mentioned, they have their own craft beer. They have warm dishes, especially the route between Prague and Berlin is very attractive not only because of the scenery outside, but also because of the beautiful dining cars they have there with nice table lamps, white tablecloth, red seats. It's really beautiful. But there are other countries as well. I want to highlight as well a Finland, you can have a really nice dining experience there. And also, of course, Switzerland, they have a huge variety of dining cars, especially the dining car in the east of the country, whereas St. Moritz is and all these very well known alpine ski resorts. There is this Old Comienzo dining car. It's basically a dining car from the 1930s in regular service. Cool, and you have to distinguish between the dining cars and the regular service and those on charter trains or luxury tourist trains. They are all over the world or in Africa or in South America. And they are offering fine dining, but you pay for it. Of course it's like 10,000 euros per trip or something like that. It's like a cruise ship. It's just a cruise train. But that's not the thing I'm so interested in. I think it's for the ordinary people I would say
Katy Lee
Is there a restaurant carriage that you've tried where the food is mediocre, but the views are absolutely incredible. So you can forgive them for it.
David Ecker
Yeah, if you go to Italy, for example, in their high speed trains, you'll often travel alongside the coast, especially on the Adriatic coast and the East side is kilometers of beautiful seaside view, but the bar carriage just offers, yeah, small snacks and pretty well done espresso, of course. But that's it. So they are standing in the back carriage looking outside to the sea to that Adriatic Sea, you can forgive, not having a full on three course meal, I guess?
Katy Lee
And is there a picture of someone else's journey from a restaurant car beyond Europe somewhere else in the world that they've sent to your dining car account? And you have just looked at it and thought, Ah, I have to try that one?
David Ecker
Ah, yes, of course, recently, someone posted pictures from some dining experiences in Central Asia Uzbekistan and Kirgizstan. And I felt I have to try that once. It looks really exciting, especially also the landscape passing by this huge mountains and also the desert. And yeah, I have to do this.
Katy Lee
That does sound pretty amazing. Coming back to Europe, cross border train travel can be quite complicated here because our national train networks aren't that well integrated. And you sometimes need to buy this horrible combination of different tickets for different legs of the trip, as someone that travels a lot on European trains, is that something that seems to be getting better, or not so much.
David Ecker
I think we are kind of stuck in the middle, I heard that there is progress behind doors and European Union, that they're working hard on finding solutions. But it's really a difficult task, as the rail networks are organized nationally, with all these different forms of ticket prices and something like that. This is also something that I wanted to highlight with my social media project. And that sustainable form of travelling is possible and that there are also advantages and nice things to it next to some things that have as you mentioned, be done better. But it's one thing there are other things as well, because the capacities and how to bring all these people that will be attracted from attractive ticketing system has to also fit in, in in trains. So countries have to buy or invest in the rolling stock has to invest in infrastructure to put more and more people on trains instead of planes.
Katy Lee
And as you say, there does seem to be a trend towards people wanting to take long distance trains more partly for climate reasons. And as part of that night trains are having a bit of a resurgence across Europe right now. Are you hopeful that that's going to lead to a bright new era of train dining across Europe?
David Ecker
I think the dining on trains has not that bright future with the I think efficiency is what is needed and trains, you see more and more people want to go by train and there has to be space for those people and not so much for dining. I don't think that it will die completely. But efficiency will be the more important term than, let's say, comfort.
Katy Lee
That's kind of sad.
David Ecker
Yeah, it's sad. But um, it makes sense to me, you can already see how tiny and trends will be in 25 years. If you have a look at the orderings of the rolling stock. You see what the railroad companies, how they design it. For example, in the Czech Republic, you see already that this era of dining on trains as it is right now will come to an end or will fade out a little bit.
Katy Lee
So like me, everyone's just gonna have a sad sandwich and a sad can of Orangina.
David Ecker
Yeah, I think it will be better than that. I think the Czechs will always have their freshly tapped beer on trains. I'm pretty sure that won't vanish. But yeah, that's the direction as well I think in general, having a quick beer and the quick snack instead of three course meal.
Wojciech
If you'd like to acquaint yourself better with dining on railway cars, head forward to @DiningCar on Twitter now turned X. It's an account that would make you both hungry and willing to travel.
Inspiration Station - 40’10’’
Dominic
Welcome everyone to the Inspiration Station - our newly renamed segment of cultural recommendations across Europe. But Katz What have you been enjoying this week?
Katz
Yeah, my inspiration station is Mae Martin stand up show on Netflix called SAP. Now I must confess that Mae is Canadian, but has an English father and lives in England. So I am sneaking it in. I thought it was absolutely hilarious and gave me a lot of comic relief that I needed. And there was a part that was particularly sharp on the front of mindfulness and self care. And it changed the way that I think about how I think forever.
Dominic
Oh, I'll watch it. I love Mae Martin. I loved this series feel good. And Wojciech what have you been enjoying this week?
Wojciech
So I'm definitely not a big fan of autumn as such. So as this season rolls in, I'm kind of finding ways to make my days a bit brighter maybe. And one of the ways is through the music of Laura Mvula. Have you ever heard of her?
Dominic
I love Laura Mvula.
Wojciech
So for those who have not heard of her, she's a UK based singer. And I've accidentally closely followed her since the beginning of her career. Today, I want to recommend the title track from her latest album, pink noise. It's a highly energetic music reminiscent of Prince a lot. But with a very contemporary twist. Like sometimes when I listen to this, it feels like this is the music Prince would be creating if he was still with us.
Dominic
Overlapping musical tastes. It's once again showing up Wojciech!
Wojciech
Yeah, yeah, we should go to like a music festival together one day!
Dominic
We should do!
Katz
Cute!
Happy Ending - 42’04’’
Dominic
Time for a happy ending which Katz has very kindly offered to take over from me this week, because I've been so busy in a dark theater for 12 hours every day, Katz, cheer us up!
Katz
I am giving a happy ending to the BiciBús, which is in one of my hometowns - Barcelona. Sorry, there's been a bit of a bias of Barcelona in the past couple of weeks.
Wojciech
What is this BiciBús?
Katz
It means bicycle bus. And it's actually a big pack of bicycles. So there's no real bus. And it's this scheme that was started in the 90s, but has gained popularity over the past three years all around the area after a group started one in the nearby city of Veeck. And the idea is to make it possible for kids to cycle to school. It's since spread. And there are 15 Bicycle bus lines in Barcelona. And it's especially popular in neighborhoods that are particularly kid unfriendly. So if you think about Barcelona, these like iconic grid streets, right. And it's innovative architecture, but it's also really car heavy. And a lot of people say it's not easy for kids to get around, I can attest as someone who moved here when I was eight from a village in England with 20 houses, it can be pretty overwhelming when you're like just learning to cross the road. And there really is no way for kids to cycle safely through the city on their own. So instead, a group of adults decided the only way it will be safe is if they cycle with one big pack and they take up like the entire road. So it also feels a bit like the sort of child protests of like make space for us. And the organizers decided it was better to annoy the cars then have the kids sticking to the bike lanes and annoy the other cyclists. So they just cycle in the middle of the road. And they've accomplished some rather symbolical moves. One of the big problems is a lack of infrastructure. So the kids don't have anywhere to put the bikes when they get to the school. But they've managed to convince a Volkswagen workshop and also a former prison to let the kids put their bikes. So there are all these pictures of like many, many children streaming into this prison. There are a bunch of different lines and stops. But the BiciBús starts every Friday at 8.30. And it crosses through the city across these like massive six lane avenues. And then tehre are adults at the front and the back and at the side acting as protectors. According to the organizers, the BiciBús now transports over 1000 people a week. And they're all these really cute little interviews with kids talking about how it's the best day of their week and they love getting to choose the boombox music. And the teachers say that the kids arrive at school way more energized. I love the idea of this like grassroots movement setting a whole new web of public transport and it's a model that's being replicated in many different neighborhoods and maybe also other cities. So keep your eyes peeled for a huge blob of children cycling through a metropole near you.
Dominic
Sounds so lovely. What a great initiative. It's so nice having happy ending down at me instead of having to bring the happy to other people.
Outro -
Dominic
Thank you everyone for listening. This week this show was produced by Wojciech Oleksiak and Katy Lee, who produced the interview. Thank you, Katz for joining us today as well. It was really nice to have you here. I like this with three. We'll be back next week. And actually, Katy will be back next week taking a break from her maternity leave for the beginning of a very special set of episodes about Oatly the oat milk company, so do not miss that. Until then, you can find us on social media, Instagram @Europeanspodcast, Twitter/X @Europeanspod or email us Hello@Europeanspodcast.com. I've also promised patreon supporters I'm going to set up a Blue Sky account this week. So maybe next week we'll have a new handle to announce to you. Let's see if I get there. Have a good week everyone! Ciao!,
Katz
Doei!
Wojciech
Nahvamdis!
